Tier and battle rules.

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Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:00 am

I was thinking and most servers have certain stuff thats banned. I know that we don't have much but I think it should still be here for users to see. I'll add more as people point them out and think they should be added if the majority agrees. Tell me what you think with what I have so far.

There are NO rules for Challenge Cup battles, seeing as it is random it wouldn't be fair since it's not their fault they have the moves.

Must be used in ALL battles:
Sleep, Species, and Freeze clauses.

Banned from all battles:
Moves that boost evasion even by chance including Acupressure and the ability Moody.
Moves that lower accuracy.
Illegal levels for a Pokemon or other things that you can do on PO but not the real games. For example having a Lvl 1 fully evolved Pokemon.
Rain + Swift Swim.
Items: Scope Lens, Wide Lens, Zoom Lens, Quick Claw, King's Rock, Bright Powder, Starf Berry, Lax Incense, Razor Claw.
All One Hit Knock Out or OHKO moves.
Entrainment.


Only allowed in Ubers:

Speed Boost ability on Blaziken.
Shadow Tag ability.
Shell Smash + Baton Pass.


Only Allowed in Dream World:

Unreleased abilitys when I find out which are unreleased I will put them down below for abilitys that are allowed.


Banned from all 1v1 battles that are not Challenge Cup:

Any moves that put the opponent to sleep.

Legal moves that could possibly break the rules:
Metronome


Last edited by Cody on Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:58 pm; edited 28 times in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Ursala on Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:49 am

Well It Rly dnt Bother me......since i rarly battle them now
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Speed Boost Blaziken

Post by GTxACE on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:00 am

Can u ban him too? or at least put a vote on it if thats ok?

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:31 pm

If I had to put up my two cents, I would tell you that I know from personal experience that Blaziken has no completely fail-safe "counter". Blaze can effectively run both a mixed set and and SD set, and there is no safe way of knowing which it is until you get hit by it, at which point you might have just lost a key poke on your team. Although it is true that Mixed Blaze does have effective counters (ie. Jellicent, Physically Bulky Milotic, etc.), I have decided personally that there is no method of properly "countering" SD Blaze, unless you count revenge-killing as an effective countermeasure (even a 252/252 Relaxed Quagsire takes 45.18-53.30% from an Adamant Blaze's HJK that lacks LO, which they commonly carry). Thus, having a poke that cannot be adequately countered in a tier clearly fits the description of OP, making it a necessity to send it away to Ubers, where it will more likely than not still wreak havoc, but in more manageable quantities.

Good day ._.
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Jelly.

Post by Sweetie Luv on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:08 am

Jellicent can do alot of walling to the common Hi-Jump Kick+Flare blitz+Protect+Substitute/Swords Dance. However, if it gets up multiple SDs, and sometimes carries Rock Slide, Jelli will not do much. With the swords dances in mind, and the fact that Blaziken sweeps the entire team, its hard to pull off. Chandelure can also work well with the set listed above. If ST is on some servers, it can trap and get +6 in CM. But yes, there are no "real counters" to Blazi. My vote on this is mixed, but for the sake of all people, I vote yes.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Elliot on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:15 am

If people can't stop trolling and just being plain assholes with Blaziken, then I guess than banning it to the isolated lands of Uber is not that bad of an idea. Sub, Protect, Baton Passing sets with leftovers trolls soo freaking hard it's not funny. Anyway, I can't officially change my vote, but I will say that I would rather it be in ubers. :/

And 49, ._.
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Speed Boost Blaziken/Tier and battle rules

Post by [EQN☯ X]Shaun on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:20 am

Well it does get anoying but anyway I can smash blaziken wth my sandstorm team *w*.

Legendaries like wifi event or main legendaries should get banned because,
1. There two strong
2. If you do Wi Fi battles there banned

Anyway stuff that lower your accuracy raise evasion doesn't matter get moves that always hit or try for luck. And you can switch if they lower your accuracy. Combos like Swift Swim+Rain Dance are Combos I use one similar first I send Hippowdon out if they change the weather I switch for Tyranitar and while snadstorms I use Excadrill with Sand Force and Garchomp with Sand Viel. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:22 am

Thanks for the responses guys, it will be put into thought.

Edit: It has been banned now since the majority agree on it.


Last edited by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Sweetie Luv on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:58 am

Im seeing less and less CM Chandelure sets, but this is why I think it should be banned. Say I have a scarf Hihidaruma/Darmanitan. Its VS your blissey, and it uses Superpower. You would switch into Chandelure, taking no damage. Being Scarfed, there is nothing I can do. I can only watch in despair as you set up +6 calm minds and proceed to demolish my team.

Another strategy is the Durant entrainmenting traunt to a poke, then going into Chandelure and setting up +6 speed and +6 sp atk. GG.
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Why can't I put my sig on this :'(

Post by Elliot on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:11 am

To be honest if you can't understand why shadow tag is cheap then you are somewhat blind... Just saying ._.

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:51 am

I have nothing to say about ST Shandy, unless everyone starts running Shed Shell on everything not named Tyranitar or Blissey/Chansey, it isn't exactly a fair utility in OU. The only upside to it at this point is that nearly everyone who uses it chooses to run the scarf set, so they're only killing every one of your pokes in increments as opposed to one fell swoop. As an homage to the OP nature of ST, I ran a bulky Evolite Lampent in UU carrying Hp Dragon/Acid Armor/CM/Rest. This set, unless hit by crits and the like, swept the opponents team nearly every time (of course after killing of any Steel types Razz).

Adieu ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by searchT on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:13 am

This is such bull crap(btw 49th I love your avvy it matches my pokes name) I <3 starf berry + Light + harvest=winner star exeggutor... -.- why does cody get to pick whats in the game and not. *cries*


Last edited by searchT on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:17 am

SearchT, I don't get to chose, everyone has agreed on everything that is on there. Everyone agreed on banning all evasion stuff other than sand viel so it's all banned. It leaves the game up to chance which is no fun.


Last edited by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by UltimateLatios on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:13 am

oddly...... this combo COULD be banned on smogon.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:51 am

Alright, I realize this isn't an issue of tiering as much as battle rules, but I feel like we need to implement a basic set of necessary clauses. I'm more than happy to accept challenges, I receive more than enough here (why they challenge me as opposed to Gym Leaders or something I haven't the slightest, but I digress), but at one point or another it gets to me, whether it's battling a team of Arceus or simply having a Smeargle Spore half my team. I understand this server enjoys a slightly more loose and lax style of play, which is indeed a breath of fresh air nowadays, but there comes a point whenst this style conflicts with the enjoyment of the game for other players, such as myself. The standard set of clauses and the one I abide by are the Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, Species Clause and Wifi Battle (OHKO Clause, had it been provided), and although I don't expect all of them to be used, I would like to hope that we could implement at least some of them, just for a certain level of piety to the common standards.

Thus, I suggest we begin stressing the importance of exercising the Sleep Clause and Species Clause (Freeze Clause too, but it's a tad situational anyway), as most people hold their lack of Wifi Battle near and dear to their hearts.

Good day ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:42 pm

Well for now 49th, all I can say is don't accept challenges without the basic clauses. I'll try to get it implimented somehow by talking to Server.


Last edited by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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What Should Be Banned

Post by MVX360 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:18 pm

Here's just a summary of what I feel should be banned. (most of these might have already been mentioned)

-Shadow Tag Chandelure (Allowed in Ubers Only)
-Speed Boost Blaziken (Allowed in Ubers Only)
-Speed Boost Sharpedo (Allowed in Ubers Only)

-Drizzle + Swift Swim (Rain Dance + Swift Swim can be allowed, just not paired up with the Drizzle Ability)
-All items that increase Evasion (BrightPowder, Lax Incense)
-All moves that increase Evasion only (Double Team, Minimize) [Including the Ability Moody]
-Moves that increase or decrease accuracy only. (Hone Claws, Smokescreen, etc)
-All instant OHKO moves (Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Sheer Cold)
-Lv 1 Fear Pokemon (Lv 1 Donphan, Lv 1 Aron, etc) [All Pokemon must be Lv 100]


I also agree with 49th in which we stress the importance of exercising the Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, and Species Clause.

Note: Abilities like Snow Cloak or Sand Veil should NOT be banned. Scope Lens, Wide Lens, Zoom Lens, Quick Claw, and King's Rock should NOT be banned. BrightPowder should be banned since it is an Evasive increasing item.

^_^ And there you have it.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:26 pm

F.E.A.R. Aron lv 1 shouldn't be banned at all, it's easily countered by ghosts status moves or entry hazards. Donphan however isn't possible to have at lv 1 in the game so falls under the rules I stated on illegal levels. King's Rock Chininno or w\e is pretty broken with its flinches on the multi hit moves. The others ones make sense and no one really uses those items anyway. Quick Claw can be some bs sometimes...when the users of it get lucky. I don't think Sharpedo is that big of a problem but if others agree it can be added.


Last edited by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by MVX360 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:31 pm

Cody wrote:F.E.A.R. Aron lv 1 shouldn't be banned at all, it's easily countered by ghosts status moves or entry hazards. Donphan however isn't possible to have at lv 1 in the game so falls under the rules I stated on illegal levels. King's Rock Chininno or w\e is pretty broken with its flinches on the multi hit moves. The others ones make sense and no one really uses those items anyway. Quick Claw can be some bs sometimes...when the users of it get lucky. I don't think Sharpedo is that big of a problem but if others agree it can be added.

Sounds good. The only reason why I put the Fear Pokemon is because many of those who wouldn't be prepared to face one would most likely end up losing. I just thought that it would be fair to make every battle Lv 100 vs Lv 100. Kings Rock can be banned if you want. Quick Claw has a pretty low chance of working anyways, so you'd have to be lucky to get it. Therefore I don't think that's too big of a problem. Sharpedo can become as bothersome as Blaziken if you think about it. I feel it should be banned too, otherwise it wouldn't be too fair to Blaziken Smile

Thanks bro.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:36 pm

Aron and Probopass are the only Legal reusable FEAR's, in addition to what I already said, multi hit moves also easily get rid of them. Shardpedo isn't nearly as common as Blaziken or nearly as good in most peoples opinions.


Last edited by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:56 pm

Sharpedo doesn't need to be placed in Ubers due to the following:
-Prevalence of Ferrothorn, which resists both of his stabs and can easily OHKO w/Power Whip or set up hazards in his face
-Weakness to Fighting, leading him to be constantly checked by the likes of Roobushin
-Lack of any method of boosting his attack. Unlike his SB counterpart Blaziken, Sharpedo can not supplied the raw power of SD Blaze, nor the effective OU-based coverage of Mixed Blaze, making it difficult for him to sweep w/out SR and Spikes support

Good Day ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:05 pm

Thank you for agreeing on Sharpedo 49th Smile.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:10 pm

It's what I do...until it conflicts with one of my opinions ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by 49th Parallel on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:54 pm

Ayte, here's my view on the situation. The most commonly used of the Shell Smash/Quiver Dance Passers are Smeargle, Venomoth and Gorebyss (Gorebyss being used mostly in rain with SS). Though this is theoretically quite powerful, all of these threats are countered by Thundurus and Tornadus, who can simply abuse their priority Taunt to outspeed and then proceed to whittle away at their health with Thunderbolt or Air Slash/Grass Knot, respectively. In addition, the highest base speed of 90 (Venomoth), so it should also be noted that a capable Scarfed poke of base 91 and above could simply outspeed and KO the opposing poke. However, I do recognize that this isn't possible for every team, leaving me at a bit of an stalemate as to which side to take on the matter. As of such, I shall take a neutral stance to this case. I hope that reading this has given you a greater level of understanding towards this issue.

Buenos Dias ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:41 am

@Ultimate I'm sorry some of the rules conflict with your team but that's how it is. Also I deleted your other two posts, don't spam posts when you can just edit the previous one.
@49th Well Swift swim is banned anyway but still, it can be used to sweep sometimes without it.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Elliot on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:12 pm

Meh. Maybe more people should have taunters. ._.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Cody on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:32 pm

That's not the point Elliot. If it's over powered it's over powered, besides not every team has room for taunters on it.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Elliot on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:16 am

There are a lot of taunters. Making room for it can't be that hard to be honest. It's not even that overpowered if you ask me. Maybe if you're asleep/frozen or w/e. I just think that we are going a little overboard with the banning.
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by searchT on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:00 am

I protest for my starf eggy :X also Latios your signature is too big :X
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by UltimateLatios on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 am

JUST DEAL WITH IT lol
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by UltimateLatios on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:41 pm

Cody wrote:F.E.A.R. Aron lv 1 shouldn't be banned at all, it's easily countered by ghosts status moves or entry hazards. Donphan however isn't possible to have at lv 1 in the game so falls under the rules I stated on illegal levels. King's Rock Chininno or w\e is pretty broken with its flinches on the multi hit moves. The others ones make sense and no one really uses those items anyway. Quick Claw can be some bs sometimes...when the users of it get lucky. I don't think Sharpedo is that big of a problem but if others agree it can be added.
Dude, another one would be chimchar, like rattata the F.E.A.R team, But Sharpedo is KNOWN for focus sashes, Drizzle or its Rain Dance, speed boost, its a bit like blaziken, but Chandelure with shadow tag i think isn't much of a problem, exept if its used with the durant combo.


Last edited by UltimateLatios on Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Symptom on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:09 am

Dude, another one would be chimchar, like rattata the F.E.A.R team, But Sharpedo is KNOWN for focus sashes, Swords Dance, speed boost, its a bit like blaziken, but Chandelure with shadow tag i think isn't much of a problem, exept if its used with the durant combo.

Ive used shadowtag Chandelure in ubers before and its freaking amazing. In OU? its broken, send it in anything that can't hurt it or on steel walls and its done for. Or it can even set up on something that cant hurt it.

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Josehero on Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:43 am

From my experience with Gorebyss without drizzle baton break as i call it is not very good. I think sharpedo will be appearing everywhere once blaziken cant be used in OU i think everything should be as it is HOWEVER i would like to know why species clause is banned. In one of my developing teams i have a two arcanines which is used in a non 'cheating' way. Lastly i would like to know if ninetailes is officially OU or uber. Ty for co-operating with me

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by Champion Blue on Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:05 am

Cody,
I think we should really consider banning swift swim + drizzle combo. It is way too overpowered in the OU scene and has been banned on most other servers. Rain teams already have a HUGE advantage over most of the metagame with Hydration + rest, they don't need another. Please consider the banning of swift swim + drizzle on the same team to even out the meta and create some sort of balance. Thanks for the consideration Smile

@ MVX, the reason Blaziken is banned is due to its ability to pass speed boosts. It became better than ninjask at passing while also being able to hold its own with moves like Hi Jump Kick. Ninjask is fair because it is unable to really do anything other than pass. Sharpedo is good as well because 1 it is unable to pass and 2 it's entire strategy is ruined by any hazard whatsoever. Also, people dont abuse sharpedo like they did Blaziken. Poor Blaziken...

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Re: Tier and battle rules.

Post by UltimateLatios on Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:17 pm

Symptom wrote:
Dude, another one would be chimchar, like rattata the F.E.A.R team, But Sharpedo is KNOWN for focus sashes, Swords Dance, speed boost, its a bit like blaziken, but Chandelure with shadow tag i think isn't much of a problem, exept if its used with the durant combo.

Ive used shadowtag Chandelure in ubers before and its freaking amazing. In OU? its broken, send it in anything that can't hurt it or on steel walls and its done for. Or it can even set up on something that cant hurt it.

Okay, Some people (like me) know how to kill those kind of chandelures, i barely face them. The only time i used it is when i used the durant combo
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Re: Tier and battle rules.

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